The Problems With Socialism
It seems to me that there is this growing infatuation with Socialism these days. The very heart of it attracts those compassionate people into believing that this is the object of civilized society. I see it growing in political popularity. I see it growing in religious circles. I see it becoming a welcomed member of society.
Socialism is basically a form of government that takes all the profits of a society and spreads it equally across its citizens. It looks real good on paper: no one is richer than anyone else; no one goes without a home; everyone has equal access to the goods of a society; everyone has exactly what they need provided for them; everyone is treated and respected equally.
As I said, this all sounds great on paper. Problem is, in action, the deeds fall short of the intention. Here are my issues with Socialism:
1. No Competition
In socialism, all classes of people have exactly the same wealth. No one has more than their neighbor. What this does is create a sense of security and comfort. When someone works harder than another person, the exact same profit is earned (in whatever capacity we call "profit"). Therefore, there is really no need to work harder than another. If one person carries more of the burden, or more responsibility - like a manager of a plant, or the head of a business - there is really no incentive to carry the needs of that particular position to its peak level. You have thus created a plateau for business achievement.
2. Someone always takes over.
Stalin. Chairman Mao. Fidel Castro. Hugo Chavez. Hillary Clinton. There's always someone ready to take the lead and decide what's best for everyone else. There is a pinnacle; a peak representative of the society willing to bear the "brunt" of the blows for the "good of society." In other words, it turns into a dictatorship very quickly. With society in control of all the wealth and distribution thereof, the head of that society is the one in charge of deciding how it goes out. You have just created a despot. It might work out for a generation, maybe two, but someone will be in charge that doesn't want to give up power. It's human nature. Not spiritual nature - human nature. There are smooth talkers, and fast walkers. Look how our buddy Hugo Chavez is turning his democratic Venezuela into a dictatorship systematically. As long as the right procedure is followed, it can be done. When the government is in charge, there's no stopping the government's control.
3. It has not worked anywhere it has been tried.
The Soviet Union; Cuba; Communist China; North Korea; Vietnam - not one of these countries has succeeded without millions of deaths, outrageous numbers of starving citizens, or they just haven't succeeded at all. Stalin massacred his own people. So did Chairman Mao. Kim Jong Il allows his citizens to starve while he further isolates his country. Vietnam had millions of its citizens killed when the United States withdrew from its efforts to halt the spread of Communism. Cuba has refugees leaving still to this day. China is only just now viewing the potential wealth in modeling its economy along more capitalist forms. Socialism doesn't work. Not in the forms that have been tried, and not in the forms that will be developed.
Human society, as a whole, cannot hold up in this dream of a Utopia. I'll admit it again - all these ideas about Socialism sound absolutely wonderful. But they have always fell short in action.
The United States is the freest, wealthiest, most powerful country in the world - and it's been around for less than two and a half centuries. I credit this to an absolutely amazingly written constitution above all else; and an amazing system for its economy to continually better itself. Free trade, capitalist corporate and business models, and a drive to be better for your own sake. In the place, you can become as wealthy as you can figure out how to become. All you have to do is strive to be better.
I fear and rue the day that Socialism is found to be the absolute model of perfection. It will be on that day that people hand over that which gives them the right to believe what they believe; that which gives them the right to be what they want to be; that which gives them the right to decide for themselves how far they wish to succeed in life; that which gives them the right to practice whatever religion, notion, or idea comes to their mind.
That thing I refer to is freedom.
Keep government out of your life. Personal freedom is all that counts in this world.
posted by Joe Daher @ Saturday, June 02, 2007
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17 Comments:
The fact that you appear to consider Hillary Clinton to be a socialist tells me all a lot about your knowledge of the ideology!!!
Anyway, I would like to comment about your issues with socialism.
You assume personal financial profit is the only driving force behind hard work or achievement. Personally, I believe far greater achievement is possible when other motivating factors are present such as a love of, or aptitude for, your vocation. Free people from wage slavery and they will be better able to find rewarding vocations and to work for the benefit of their community. I'm not convinced people would become lazy if wealth was distributed equally. I can think of many better reasons to work than money.
Any government under any system can turn into a dictatorship. The same potential is there for a government to abuse its control. You CAN have a socialist democracy. However, one problem with a socialist political system is that it incurs the wrath of the West (in particular the USA who have a completely irrational fear of communism). Have you considered that one reason these systems become so closed and controlled is for their own protection - they must become increasingly insular in order to exist when more powerful nations are constantly looking for a reason to overthrow governments (even when democratically elected?).
It's a shame you believe humans cannot uphold utopia. It seems as though you believe humans are inherently selfish and will always succumb to greed or power. I have more self-control than that. Do you?
In any case, utopia will probably never be achieved but that will never stop me from trying. I refuse to believe in a world where inequality is better than equality, ignorance better than tolerance, and the needs of the few outway those of the many.
Hillary Clinton. The instant you tried to lump Clinton in with Stalin you lost all credibility. This is Republican propaganda, and sheer nonsense. She'd be considered slightly right-of-center in Canada or Europe. You know, those freer, wealthier countries with higher education levels, lower crime rates and longer life spans (and lower infant mortality rates and higher literacy rates and...)
The United States is the freest, wealthiest, most powerful country in the world
This is likewise nonsense. It's not even in the top 10 with regards to "freedom", and as for America's high-water mark for wealth and power, that was never higher than under the Clinton regime, and is currently at its lowest mark since the Great Depression. Enronomics, anyone?
I'm no fan in any way whatsoever of socialism, even on paper. But swap out centralized authority of the state with centralized authority of the church, and you have the same problems. What America has done now is centralize authority in a corrupt and incompetent conservatism, with yet again the same results.
(Today, someone in America will disappear into a black van, flown to a secret base and detained and tortured - without charges. Today an American citizen is having his phone tapped - without a warrant. Today government agents are "visiting" a citizen to ask him questions about books he took out of the library. It's never, ever, been worse than it is right now.)
Your second point remains: Someone always takes over. Right now it's Republicanism, but the demiurge will find a new shape to take when the mob catches on to this particular con.
I would agree with you about the US Constitution, which is why the entire rest of the world is aghast that there are not mass demonstrations in the streets against the Republican contempt for this document. But despite Republicanism's best efforts, democracy prevails, and people are catching on.
Like millions outside of the united states I pray for the restoration of the Constitution and the return of American democracy.
Greetings, Che and Jordan.
Firstly, the Hillary Clinton thing was intended as a poke, so don't take me too seriously there (although she has given me more than one reason to believe she's a Socialist).
@ Che: I'm not saying that personal financial profit is the ONLY driving force behind hard work or achievement. But it is the BEST factor in the equation to deliver a viable outcome. I have absolutely no doubt that there would, have, and always be those who do what they do because they love doing it or making the world better in general. But there will always be a greater population of people that would gladly turn over their need to work for play.
Tis true, the US and other Western countries have had a hand in quite a lot of anti-communist propaganda. This is because we have seen the horrible nature of this beast under these incredibly brutal dictators. Stalin didn't have any pressure from the US pre-WWII. Yet, this didn't stop him from killing 30-40 million of his own people. Red China was a threat because we saw the same massacres. The Western culture is quite skeptical of these systems because the bleak outcome has been seen.
As far as my faith in humanity holding a Utopia, I have none - at least not in our current capacity. I believe there's a lot more evolving to be done before a system like that could ever be considered workable. And when it does, it will be because humanity as a whole will have decided that it is the best possible route. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the current incarnation of human souls could EVER, in ANY diagram you could create, be able to hold a socialist system together.
"I refuse to believe in a world where inequality is better than equality, ignorance better than tolerance, and the needs of the few outway those of the many."
And when you say it like that, of course it sounds great. I wasn't suggesting any other thought than that. But I think it has been proven over and over again that the model in question - Socialism - has fallen short of each ideal you listed.
Look: I'm not nor did I say that Capitalism is perfect. But it has the best chance of succeeding when given a free market chance. You will have those that work hard, collect a lot of wealth, and create a lot of cushion for themselves. You will also have those that don't work hard, not contribute to society, and fail miserably. The best part is: even those that start off in completely miserable surroundings can get out from that and make it to the top tier.
And that's why I think it works best.
@ Jordan: Again, the Clinton thing was a joke, and if you take it to mean that Hillary=Stalin I think you greatly misunderstand the point. Get serious.
The United States IS the freest and wealthiest (that's not a brag, don't take it as such). We can swap out different statistics, but when it comes down to it, the US holds the cake. And Bill Clinton wasn't the one responsible for getting the US to the pinnacle point (even though the economy is doing better now than it was under Clinton), nor is Bush the one responsible for getting us to the rut of popularity now (remember the Democratic majority in Congress has a lower approval rating than the president). These are two polar opposites who I am sure will be judged different in the future. Reagan was almost as unpopular as George W. when he was in office, and is now considered the guy who beat the Soviet Union. Truman had a lower approval rating than any of them, and now is considered tough as nails. History will judge the deeds of a person, not the politics.
Your astute approach and rejection of "Republicanism" in its entirety only shows exactly where your belief lies. I don't dispute that there have been quite a lot of blunders, miscalculations, and misdeeds under the current administration - but that is the fault of the administration and not the entire Republican base of belief.
Beyond all that, this wasn't a discussion of Republican vs. Democrat, it was Capitalism vs. Socialism - with a joke about a known Socialist-friendly presidential candidate (who just happens to be a Democrat). If it had been a Republican, I'm sure I would have been greeted with cheers.
Sorry I missed your point about Clinton = Stalin but Clinton does not = Stalin. Still missing it, actually.
And sure, fire away with your freedom statistics. The position that America under the Patriot Act and after the greatest power-grab in the history of the executive branch is just... indefensible. No, Americans have less freedom, less civil liberties than the laissez-faire countries of the EU, and of course that big Arctic thing immediately to your north. I'm not saying it's a failed state like Somalia, just that you can't seriously compare the United States to Sweden or the Czech Republic or the Netherlands in terms of the individual power and liberty of its citizens.
No, it's not a "brag", it's just crazy talk.
Fun with numbers
Sorry that should have been "the positon that the US is the most free..."
Anyway, you'll probably like this:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38998
Jordan:
I'll have to admit, that last link was funny.
Here's my problem with your statistics: they don't relate to the point. Of course there are problems. I bet if you look up info on the Czech Republic and Sweden, you'll find issues as well.
Here's MY point:
"America’s military is the strongest; its economy the richest, its political ideas the most imitated; its language near-universal; its music the most listened to; its movies and television the most watched; its publications the most read; its fast food the most eaten; its soft drinks the most guzzled."
There is no country in the world as influential. America donates more money to world charities than any other country in the world. America contributes more foreign support to countries than any other country in the world. America contributes more money to the UN and peacekeeping missions than any of its members. The United States contributes more money to global health than any other nation.
To discount all this and lump in these problems as if the PROBLEM of the body defines the BODY itself is rediculous. This is why I believe the US has the best political, governmental, and public form. We have the freedom to be stupid. We have the freedom to do wrong. We have the freedom to do as we please - but there are consequences to these freedoms.
One must know that suspicious behavior, such as checking out a book on bomb making from the library, might get a call placed. One must know, that while we can call and talk about Mary Sue cheating on her husband, if you start talking about the destruction of the JFK airport fuel hub, you might get recorded.
I realize you have issues with some policies in the government, but I liver here. I have never enjoyed more economic success, health benefits, and FREEDOM.
Oh, and:
Sweden
and
the Czech Republic
Boy oh boy!
Perhaps you two need to agree on a definition of "freedom".
Joe - Yes America is the richest and best-armed country in the world. And yes they have given the rest of the world inefficiently produced fast food and soft drinks. By the way, these are the best examples of the evils of capitalism, what with McDonalds lnked with destruction of the rainforest and Coca Cola with monopolizing local water reserves causing draught in India.
However, I digress.
The USA does not have its own political ideas or language, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.
On the subject of freedom, I'd have to agree with Jordan that Canada and most EU countries offer a better example of free and democratic society.
At this point in time I'm sadly unable to separate my nation - the UK - from the USA in the post 9/11 world.
I used to be proud of our free and liberal society. Now I fear my opinions could one day land me in prison. I don't consider that freedom.
Che:
America gives a lot more, as previously mentioned, than just "inefficently produced fast food and soft drinks" (which millions of people still consume).
And I am not so quick to blame the big corporations as being "evils of capitalism", as they have created millions of jobs all over the world. In addition, they provide service. McDonalds, for instance, while not considered health food, provides cheap food as well. People EAT for low PRICE. That is INHERENTLY good.
Corporations might have some questionable tactics, but that's because they have in the makeup the genetic obligation to look out for their investors and stock holders. But we must measure the good that comes from these business as well as the bad. How much do they contribute to the world's economy?
"The USA does not have its own political ideas or language, so I'm not sure what you mean by this."
Che, I can't discuss this with you if you refuse to believe that the US has its own political ideas. That sounds foolish for someone to say, and doesn't really help your point.
The language part...maybe. To some extent you can argue that it's the English language, but both the US and Britain can be attributed for spreading the language of business across the globe.
And quite frankly, I'm concerned with the people who think we are all going to be locked in prison for saying and doing anything that the government doesn't approve of. I haven't seen an example of either of these in the UK or the US, and we don't make it a habit of arresting our protestors.
Our socialist friend Hugo Chavez, however, is doing exactly that. If they don't agree with him, he shuts down their TV station. Think he's alone? Russia's neo-socialist Putin...he just kills those who he wants silenced.
Where's the outcry over these injustices? Why does the US get attacked by people when it tries to protect itself from another 9/11, but when people across the globe flat out ignore human rights, they go unquestioned?
I haven't seen an example of either of these in the UK or the US, and we don't make it a habit of arresting our protestors.
Dear God, you can't be serious. This is the very height of naivete.
Yes, America makes a habit of arresting protestors and letter-to-the-editor writers. Google the phrase "free speech zones".
Your phone is tapped, your e-mail is read and the NSA knows what you took out of the library last year (and if you donated to Greenpeace, watch out!)
I was on a plane last week sitting next to an American woman, and asked how she felt about having to have a passport to return to her own country. She said "as long as it keeps me safe". I asked how it kept her safe, and she had no answer. Americans used to value freedom, now they just value safety.
You are vastly, profoundly less free than a Czech or a Swede. Or a Canadian. Americans arrest their own citizens at a rate exceeded only by China, and execute their own citizens at a rate that exceeds that of Saudi Arabia. Americans live in fear of their government and increasingly off-book security agencies who operate beyond the law - and the once-valued Constitution.
How free are you with the first world's only INCREASING infant mortality rate? How free are you with a shorter life span and lower literacy rate than Cuba? If you can't say, think, write, or speak what you believe without being labelled as "suspicious" by your neighbours and your government?
BTW America has not been the world's wealthiest per-capita nation for over a decade. China pwns all your cash reserves.
Again, Jordan:
I will say this one more time, then respond again. The post was about Socialism vs. Capitalism, and about how Capitalism is better (and its proven by the United States EVERY DAY).
You have instead decided to break from topic and promote your far left disgust with anything under the banner of Republican leadership. Yes, I get it, you don't agree with the policies.
Why would I google "free speech"? What's that supposed to prove? There's a hundred examples every day of how the media is biased towards one particular spectrum than another. Watch MSNBC, and then watch Fox News. They're both biased. Do I assume that both sides have been muzzled to only spew "accepted speech" from both parties? Nonsense, Jordan. The government's hand doesn't come down that hard, Jordy.
People who are arrested are arrested because they ARE suspicious. You don't see Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore in prison do you? I would dare say Al Franken would have made a pretty big prison term if it weren't for free speech. Or do you think that the Big Bad Evil Bush is afraid of them?
Problem is, Jordan, that you only see things from one end of the spectrum. The Czech Republic and Sweden have their own list of problems, the LEAST of which is being the primary target of a radical, insane minority of religious rebels. Rest assured, when they become the global giant of the Western civilization, then I'm sure they'll be assaulted with the same mindset and prepare themselves.
I'm against the executions - always have been. They're convicted criminals though, Jordan, not random people. Don't make it sound like the US pulls people off the street and stuffs them into some execution van. American people do NOT live in fear of their government because...I LIVE HERE. If I'm worried about the literacy rate, I will TEACH my child to read. If I'm worried about the infant mortality rate and health care, I will BUY health insurance. These things I do because the society allows me to do so. I work extremely hard, and I am rewarded for it. I am free to choose among options, and if I can't afford it...then I have to work harder.
I could not, would not, and have not asked a Canadian to speak for the American people and how we feel towards our government. You don't agree with the way it's working? Fine, I get that. ME TOO. Root for the next guy to win. I know there hasn't been an on-land terrorist attack here since 9/11 (despite a few attempts), the economy here is hitting records, more people are employed, and more people are making money.
Back to the original topic at hand, I refer to this article (written by someone who doesn't even like Bush) to display the kind of freedoms we enjoy under our Capitalist society: Click here.
Socialists, however, are shutting down news stations they disagree with (Again, where's the outrage? Free speech, anyone?).
I've been trying to post a comment for two days but I'm having the worst luck! I'm gonna try it in stages now as I keep losing what I've written and its slowly driving me insane.
Che, I can't discuss this with you if you refuse to believe that the US has its own political ideas. That sounds foolish for someone to say, and doesn't really help your point
No really, I don't understand what you mean by US "political ideas". I genuinely cannot think of any political ideas that originated in or are exclusive to the USA. Perhaps I'm missing something. If you can enlighted me I will gladly stand corrected.
I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I'm wondering whether you think 'freedom' and 'democracy' are American ideas. If so, you're gonna get a shock when you find out where democracy really originated.
So yes, please do clarify because I'm not American so clearly in the dark on this one.
"Why does the US get attacked by people when it tries to protect itself from another 9/11"
We wouldn't attack the US for trying to protect itself. The problem is that many do not believe that is the reason behind their policies! All the evidence would suggest foreign policy has had the opposite effect. Britain is a key case in point. Prior to the occupation of Iraq there was little or no terrorist threat here (and must I remind you that Iraq posed no threat to either Europe or the USA). Post-occupation we have home-grown suicide bombers. Anyway you do the match we are not safer.
"but when people across the globe flat out ignore human rights, they go unquestioned?"
Human rights should be universal. You'll get no argument from me here. I can only assume you're talking about Chavez again?
Firstly, is this really a human rights issue? And secondly, have you wondered whether you're hearing the full story, what with most of the US media openly anti-socialism?
There's always two sides. Stop me if you've heard this one.
Chavez has not renewed RCTV's broadcast licence, not shut it down, which is perfectly legal. RCTV backed a military coup that ousted Chavez in 2002, until the public demanded he be returned to office. Now then, military coups against democratically elected officials with public backing? That doesn't sound very democratic to me, so which is the lesser of two evils here?
IMO news by definition should never be biased either way. By definition journalism should report with an air of neutrality. The lack of this in the US in one reason I consider some other countries to be more democratic and enjoy more freedom.
So anyway, I can't say with any conviction that Chavez is guilty of any human rights violations. I know the US are - detention without trial or legal representation for starters?
On the subject of criticisms of the US, I would recommend a book called "Why do people hate America". I honestly think it's required reading for everyone in America.
Just before you get all defensive I'm not actually suggesting anyone does hate America (least of all me) but rather certain US policy, actions, and national arrogance/ignorance. Just so we're clear.
Here's a link to buy from Amazon -
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Do-People-Hate-America/dp/1840465255/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0043269-4213615?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181062192&sr=8-1
Yeah, I'm going on a bit now aren't I? One more thing.
You don't see Cindy Sheehan or Michael Moore in prison do you? I would dare say Al Franken would have made a pretty big prison term if it weren't for free speech
Just wondering...Why is it that the "voice of opposition" in America is so often left to comedy? You know what we tend to see as the "voice of opposition" on American TV? Southpark. And The Simpsons. Cartoons for crying out loud. And then the more serious political commentary is left to shows like "The Daily Show". I love political satire and we have a proud tradition of it in the UK, but sometimes I wonder if that's just about the only place you'll hear a voice of reason on American TV? You have to worry when you can learn more from cartoons than a news channel don't you? Don't you?
Joe, I'm not going to jump in here, as much as I'd like to. What I am going to do is give you some advice if you are willing to hear me.
PLEASE LISTEN TO WHAT I'M ABOUT TO TYPE.
It is impossible to see the forest from the trees. It just is. Che and Msgr. Jordan+ are very smart people who are speaking from open and informed stances. Yes, they have opinions and strong ones at that but that was the point of your post, I hope, to invite discourse. My mother is American. She's lived in Texas as a child and moved back to San Diego 8 years ago. Believe me when I tell you I've watched the American propaganda machine slowly work at her in those 8 years. It is amazingly subtle, relentless and merciless. Have you ever read "1984". If you haven't, do it. If you have, read it again. You don't have to agree with me or it or either of these gentlemen. BUT AS A GNOSTIC you must be able to look at things from other angles, other sides. I invite you to pay particular attention to your responses to this two men. Please take a step back and re-read this string of postings. Think, meditate, pray, study news and publications from other countries. Gain some perspective. Please I mean no disrespect, my brother, when I say that you need it.
And one last thing. He may be too polite to say something, but he is Msgr. Jordan+. Period. He has been to the top of the mountain and deserves more respect from a seminarian than to be called "Jordy". I've mentioned that before. Please keep that in mind.
I'm glad you're back brother. Yours in the light of Gnosis.
Let me be clear and frank to all:
If anything I have said is in any way offensive, I beg your forgiveness. I think I have been as delicate as possible while still conveying my beliefs. I thank everyone here for joining in the discourse, and I actually enjoy the debate. I hope everyone who participates remembers that I, too, have my own opinions and should not be put in a position of ridicule because of them. Being called naive when my opinion differs from the crowd I'm speaking with can be considered offensive.
@ Che: Yes, I was referring to Chavez. And yes, I'm familiar with the accusations that the news station in question participated in a coup against Chavez. Chavez himself is no stranger with coups either - remember that.
And if I remember correctly, the guy who led CTV called for a protest march, two different sides of protestors started shooting at each other, and Chavez's commander-and-chief seized control of the government of Chavez. It wasn't CTV. Even if it had been, I doubt protesting is considered a great way to stage a coup d'état. In any case, this was in 2002 - it takes him 5 years to decide they need to be shut down?
Free speech is free speech. He had the will and the power to do something about this when he came back into office if he had thought there was something to it. These claims come after CTV has been most critical of Chavez.
Why is it that the "voice of opposition" in America is so often left to comedy?
I'm not even sure where this comment fits in, as Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan are not comedians. The voices of "opposition" to the current policies of the Bush administration are certainly not left just to comedy, and if one were to look to the Daily Show for their daily news intake, it would be no wonder people have such warped views.
In any case, again - we resort to current Bush politics instead of Capitalism vs. Socialism.
@ Shawn:
It is impossible to see the forest from the trees. It just is.
Brother Shawn, I realize you're trying to be the voice of reason, and I appreciate that (and I'm always willing to listen), but I've heard this analogy before. I'm not really sure I like it, because it suggests that there is no way to examine the box unless I'm outside of it.
I don't agree with everything Msrg. Jordan and Che are saying, obviously, and this post was meant to insight dialogue - but not about the subject at hand. It seems that it has turned into a jab-fest from Jordan, specifically, against conservative ideas (which was not and still is not the point of the post, and only became so when I poked fun at Hillary Clinton) and a way to fume about disgust with current American policies and attitudes.
Gain some perspective.
You mean read until I change my mind? Brother, please, try to understand that my opinions don't come from the internet, or the news programs at night, or some far right-wing conservative oligarch on TV or radio. These opinions of mine come from researching these topics (some at very far lengths), educating myself to what is going on around me with my local, state, and federal governments. I read these things that come out of congress (Citizen Joe, for starters) and try to absorb all I can about these topics.
I disagree with some of the positions all parties are taking. I disagree with a lot going on right now. But I agree with a lot as well. I work diligently to "gain perspective" and make sure I have at least a little clue about something before I write, type, or talk about it.
And Jordan is a big boy. Aside from being told that he is often refered to as "Father Jordy," I respect him immensely when it comes to religious ideas and ideals, and love the way his words come out to describe the mood. But his politics, my friend, are sharply different from my own. When they come to question, or ridicule, then they will be further expanded upon.
It has nothing to do with respect, and everything to do with the value of my individual opinion.
It has nothing to do with respect, and everything to do with the value of my individual opinion.
I think we can all agree that we emphatically value individual freedom and democracy. Where we differ is that in my opinion you've fallen for a false dichotomy of socialism/capitalism, whereas the Gnostic view is totalitarianism/personal responsibility. Archonic, external authority vs. liberating gnosis.
Again where we diverge is that I see the current Republican regime as dangerously close to fascism – absolutely no better than Chavez's neo-socialism, and contributing to the undermining of the US as a democratic nation. Chavez is jailing journalists, Bush is jailing journalists. Chavez is also likely tapping phones and intimidating protesters, just as the Bush regime is doing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone
It would be naive for me to extend this comparison much further, as the US has a legacy of self-determination and an "ideal" of an educated, empowered citizenry of a mature democracy that Venezuela lacks.
And here's where we can agree: we want that ideal actualized for all peoples around the world - just as we pray for the eleutherion of gnosis for all.
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